I disagree with it completely (even to the point of thinking New Order get steadily less compelling from "Blue Monday" onwards) But as with the Steve Sutherland "Scott Walker solo is shite, should have stayed in the Walker Brothers" review, it is refreshing to read such a counter-consensual take(-down)
"The ranks of the unattended legends" - nice phrase, and I guess Joydiv probably were at their lowest ebb reputationally in 1990, in terms of being an influence or something cited by other bands. And few things could have been less related to the baggy positivity emanating from the very same city at the time of writing.
Loop had done a Joydiv-ish single earlier that year ("Arc-Lite", and quite soon Disco Inferno in their early glacial monochrome phase (pre-postrock) would swim into view. There had also been a cool American band with some of that postpunk scouring dourness - Nice Strong Arm.
But no, in 1990, hardly anyone was referencing or drawing from Joy Division.
That would change - but it took another decade-plus... and a couple of films certainly helped.
Nowadays the cover design of Unknown Pleasures is everywhere, a T-shirt you can buy in malls, in the same league iconically as the Stones tongue-and-lips logo. Their canonic eminence seems permament.
I've heard that "who actually sits down of an evening with a few beers and listens to ...?" argument a few times with a few acts/albums (Trout Mask Replica is the most suggestion). And I do relish a good sacred cow butchering (I'd appreciate it if you posted a few more). But the prediction of Joy Division's future irrelevance is one of the most laughably off prognostications I've heard. Would the genealogical links (longtime fans, sought out Factory as a label specifically because of JD/NO, Bernard Sumner produced their first songs, Martin Hannett produced an album) make the Happy Mondays an exception to your thesis of Joy Division's lack of relevance to the bands of 1990?
ReplyDeleteYes, I know I'm talking about the Mondays again. It was my birthday this week and I'm indulging myself.
I remember this review. I think I had bought Unknown Pleasures the previous week :-)
ReplyDeleteThis is also only a few months after New Order scored a number 1 with "World in Motion". Which sounds like a very un-Joy Division thing to do.
Except:
“Ian was the only member of the band interested in football,” he says. “We used to talk about it, and he was a keen Blue. Deborah [Ian’s wife] once told me they were looking for a house near Maine Road as he wanted to be near the ground.”
https://www.mancity.com/news/club-news/club-news/2019/city-dna/city-dna-28-ian-curtis-joy-division-kevin-cummins
Happy Mondays as proof of relevance of Joydiv in 1990 argument is tenuous - they don't sound like Joydiv (A Certain Ratio, maybe, a tiny bit) while their spirit / vibe couldn't really be further from. Shaun Ryder wasn't wracked by thoughts of futility, meaningless, the bottomless capacity of humanity for evil, the oncoming darkness, the Void etc.
ReplyDeleteI see your point (and I was raising a suggestion rather than making a pronouncement), but I wonder if you're relying on a overly strict definition of influence. Joy Division were a key influence in inspiring the Mondays to make their own music, and that doesn't mean that they were required to ape Joy Division's music. I suppose it's at least as much a historical influence as an aesthetic one. Though is there any parallel with Ian Curtis' dead-fly dance and Bez?
ReplyDeleteThat's a funny idea re the Curtis dance and the Bez dance.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame Ian didn't live long enough to do E, it might have helped him, what with it being a therapeutic drug originally.
A good alternative history scenario to contemplate is what kind of a band Joy Division have become if he had lived but they'd gone through the same evolution that New Order did. He was the one most interesting in non-rock electronic sounds so he'd probably have pushed that but then lyrically it would have been darker and more twisted presumably. Would they have been more massive or less massive?
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ReplyDeleteThis is annoying me. I meant to type, "Trout Mask Replica is the most common suggestion". I trust that my intent was obvious given the context, but I still feel like I deserve a swift kick in the lovespuds.
ReplyDeleteAnd by the by, I originally typed "Troust" instead of "Trout", and just had to delete it. Two blows, one to each stone, methinks.
An electronic Joy Division would have fitted in with the likes of Depeche Mode and the Human League as moody 80s electro pop. You could see one future where it's Depeche Mode supporting Joy Division at the Dodger Stadium in 1990. You could also see another future where Curtis's erratic behaviour ,continues and causes the band to split in the mid 80s.
ReplyDeleteAs for Curtis on E: One option might be that he becomes a full-on positivity guy - grows out his hair, starts hanging with The Beloved and The Shamen. Another option is he goes full Teuton, moves to Rotterdam and starts making gabba records.
Actually, there's a story. Curtis splits from Joy Division in early 1983 after Movement as the band struggle to put together a single called "The Terminal Beach". Curtis moves to Europe and starts working with various EBM bands - mostly under the name The Wild Boys (one of his favorite books). The others go with New Order. Both New Order and The Wild Boys produce ground-breaking electro-pop singles and albums during the mid-90s. Both get involved in the early years of rave - New Order drawn to Ibiza and Curtis basing himself in Berlin.
The competition comes to a head in the 1990 World Cup when New Order produces the England single and Curtis produces the single for the German team. New Order narrowly win in the charts but England loses on the pitch (obviously).